Olorogun Kenneth Gbagi is a man of many parts – a criminologist, entrepreneur, lawyer and philanthropist. He was a Minister of State for Education during former President Goodluck Jonathan’s administration. In this interview, he spoke on how the COVID-19 has exposed Nigeria’s emptiness especially in the health sector. He said the decision by Northern Governors to put an end to the Almajiri system is commendable, considering the huge security and health implications to the North.
What have you been up to since you left as minister of education?
Interestingly, I have had to answer this question severally. But what is significantly important to note here is that I am first and foremost an industrialist, a lawyer, a community leader, one that is involved in alleviating the sufferings, the inability of the people to look after themselves through my foundation. I’m on over 32 limited liability companies around the world, my hands are still full. I bring foreigners, people who I perceive will help develop what my ideas are. So the question is what have I not been doing? It will interest you to know that I have held several offices other than being the chairman. I was the chairman of Delta Development and Property Authority and it’s now no news as to what has happened to it. I have held critical job that has to do with prisoners across the country at a very young and tender age as the former chairman of the Legal Aid Council of Nigeria. So what to do is never in shortage. I tell everybody that I will be quite restless in my grave, that when I die I should be buried with a number of telephones because I will need to communicate with my businesses, that is how good my empire has become and by the grace of God we have more than enough to do till old age, before we die and we are happy.
As regards ministerial job, the first person that made me a minister was Abacha, he made me a minister of tourism. After it’s been announced and everything, I got home that evening and found that the house was full with the DG of tourism and everybody. And I said I am sorry, I have rejected the job, I have told the C-in-C that I have rejected. I said I wanted to remain in business. I have never applied for any job, be it ministerial or any job but I am willing to lend my knowledge and understanding to any service as long as I can do it. What do you need to run about 2,000 rooms in a country, attending to over 11,000 people everyday? What do you do when you are associated with the ownership of the biggest mall in your state and other smaller businesses in the country? So, what to do is not lacking at all. All we ask from God is good health, longevity to be able to enjoy what he has given to us.
One of the legacy projects of former President Jonathan was the establishment of 13 federal universities across the six geo-political zones of the country, in which you played a significant role. What was the rationale for such a large number of universities?
Nigeria has all that it takes to be better than a lot of countries in the world. Our problem is short-sightedness. It will interest you to note that I did not discuss the establishment of the universities with anybody. Not even with the then President. The only person who was privileged to know what was on my mind that morning was my Permanent Secretary, Prof. Afolabi. I called him and gave a firm instruction that I wanted to create some federal universities. You must first and foremost remain selfless in order to serve society better. Till date, one of the problems we have in this country is selfishness and it is hindering us a lot. I told my Permanent Secretary that early morning that we needed to establish one university each in every state of Nigeria where a federal university didn’t exist. Secondly, I wanted to establish one polytechnic each in every state of Nigeria where none existed at the time. Thirdly, I wanted to create 16 Colleges of Education in 16 States of the Federation where such did not exist. I took the demography of the country and I realized that some states had a compliment of a federal university, a federal polytechnic and a federal college of education while others had nothing or something.
The memo, which I presented to the Federal Executive Council, was for the establishment of 13 universities, 14 polytechnics and 16 colleges of education. Though some ministers opposed the memo on the grounds that the demand for such a large number of universities could cause a ‘financial revolution’, majority of the ministers present at the meeting endorsed the memo. I made the point so clear that we needed more universities in the country and that the new ones should be given N10 billion yearly for ten years to develop and fill the yawning gaps in tertiary education in the country and move Nigeria forward.
In my memo, I gave statistics of South African population and schools, London population and schools, Indian population and schools, U.S. population and schools, and finally pointed out that Nigeria still needed additional 147 universities to cope with the size of its population and students. I also made it clear that while the nation created WAEC, NECO, JAMB and made students to pass all the examinations, there were not enough admission spaces for them in the existing universities in Nigeria thereby creating a deficit of 842,000 admission spaces, which are taken up by neighbouring countries of Ghana and other African countries. That was how the proposed universities were created.
Do you support the government’s move to execute the Oronsaye panel’s report; to merge and scarp some of its agencies?
The salary wage in Nigeria is about the highest in the world and we need to reduce it. I would rather ask the government to give money to private sector agencies to participate in economic and development issues. The government should not retrench people but should provide a conducive atmosphere to create more jobs for the people. We successfully removed close to 12 million people out of unemployment during former President Goodluck Jonathan administration through the creation of 13 new universities, which I championed. Government should not make the mistake of retrenching workers at all. That was why when I prepared the memo for the creation of additional federal universities in Nigeria, I advocated that the first generation universities should be sold to their owners: Vice chancellors and their workers to generate research funding and create better pay for them. To be candid, no country in this world develops better with government funding. The private sector needs to be encouraged to generate employment and jobs opportunities for the greater number of citizens. The whole arrangement of tying Nigeria to one source of income is responsible for the economic crisis, joblessness and lack of growth we currently experience in the land.
It is argued that one source of income could be responsible for the calls for restructuring of the country and for States to generate and manage their resources while paying appropriate tax to the government at the centre. What do you think?
For your information, Nigeria is already restructured. There is no need to cry over what you have power over. By law, Nigeria is restructured. I do not subscribe to you talking about restructuring because it makes no sense to me. Constitutionally, as we are seated here today, we are restructured. What we need to do is to sum up courage and ask our leaders to implement the Constitution 100 percent. This whole idea of coming cap in hand to government to collect dough is not working. Nigeria is properly restructured from my point of view. We only need leaders and people from all the states of the federation to do what they need to do regarding the laws of this nation. The litmus test of our restructuring is the COVID-19 crisis because as you can see the President couldn’t instruct the Governor of Anambra to lockdown. What he did with Lagos and Ogun is out of respect because they belong to the same party. Ordinarily, he couldn’t have tried that if those states were not APC States. So, what I want to say is that the country is restructured. However, the people have to go back to understand the meaning, responsibility and jobs assigned to them. This is what I find inadequate. Now, with the East not accepting that it is a misnomer the money allocated to it? Did anybody stop them from generating their internal revenue? What I am saying is that Nigeria stands restructured; we therefore need people to understand a restructured federation in order to do what they need to do.
Being a former member of the Federal Executive Council (FEC), how do you assess Nigeria’s response in managing the challenge posed by the COVID-19 pandemic?
Let’s put it this way, the luck we have whether you call it luck or something else is that this disease that came up suddenly – the first fear and the most fearful people of the word death are Nigerian citizens. Ask Nigerian citizens to lock themselves in one room for three years and assure them that they will not die, they will comply. What this pandemic has taught us is that we have failed as a people with regards to our health situation. You have seen comparisons, for instance, what we budget for health in Nigeria as a whole in one year is what an equivalent of a local government in South Africa budgets for the same period, the same in England and other places. It has shown that we don’t have any proper hospital; it has shown that we don’t have a standard health facility, and we cannot even manufacture a simple thing like hand sanitizer. It has exposed our emptiness but there is no point blaming anyone. We need to take urgent actions in addressing the gaps in order to reduce to the barest minimum the penchant of our leaders and top government functionaries to use scarce public funds to embark on medical tourism to other countries of the world.
What actions would you advise the Federal and State Governments to take in dealing with the pandemic?
Nigerians should insist that the wealth and opportunities of this great country should be equitably distributed to all Nigerians by way of good healthcare, education, job opportunities and other services that add value to their lives and make them live with hope and confidence as dignified human beings created by God. The Federal and State Governments should see COVID-19 pandemic as an investment opportunity to reset the economy. We need to turn it into an opportunity to reset the healthcare delivery system and also make a huge business investment out of the situation. We should not be ashamed to go back to the foundational level and do what is needed to give Nigerians good healthcare system, including investing heavily in the production and manufacturing of the critically needed health amenities such as hand sanitizers, face masks, ventilators and Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) that can become another huge industry in the country, providing jobs and opportunities for further investments instead of importing these essentials. My take, therefore, is that with the coronavirus lesson, we should all think twice and develop our country, which, if we do, we will be better than England, China, Dubai and America in a lot of respects.
Do you support the decision of the Federal Government and some States to approve lockdown to prevent the spread of COVID-19 in the country?
The governments must rise to take necessary measures to prevent the disease from spreading and dealing a mortal blow to Nigerians. However, let me say that it makes no meaning for you to lock people down without providing the economic necessities that are associated with such a lockdown. The lockdown would only be effective and meaningful if it comes with appropriate palliatives to save the economic interest of the people, most of who depend on their daily work to survive. For that reason, lockdown would only make meaning if the Federal, State and Local Governments in the country provide adequate palliatives for the citizens who are kept at home. The governments should emulate what we at the Gbagi Foundation are doing by sending food and other basic needs directly to the people especially the vulnerable, the disabled. Government cannot just make statement about lockdown and deploy security men to block the road and other public places when those who cannot survive without daily work form at least 72 percent of the workers in Nigeria. All I am saying is that it is good for the government to come up with statements and policies in times like this, but it is equally important for such decisions to come with a human face in order to succeed and save the intent and purposes of the government. The pandemic will certainly change the way we reason, behave and run our government and force us to begin to look inwards and spend less on foreign goods and services.
What’s your reaction to plan by Northern Governors to end Almajiri system?
The recent move by the Northern Governors to put an end to the Almajiri system is indeed commendable, particularly considering the huge security and health implications of the Almajiri system to the Northern States.
I believe that if this is successfully implemented with the required political will, the States would protect vulnerable children in the North from being victims of child trafficking and sexual abuse.
Also, given the spread of the novel COVID-19 disease, there is no better time for the governors to act than now. The Northern States need to step up to address the challenge of the growing number of infections across parts of the country.
It is a responsibility, which Northern Governors must take seriously in a bid to ensure and guarantee the rights of children living in that region to education and healthy lifestyle.
What motivated you to join politics seeing that you have already been established in business?
I was brought into politics by late Senator David Omueya Dafinone, he had called me to come and become a governor. In his words, he said I have not seen anybody who can turn this land around as governor. I hesitated. It’s a good thing Professor Emeka Enwerem is alive today. By the time I knew it, Prof Enwerem and Senator Dafinone had drafted an agreement, vesting me with the authority to run for governorship. They said we don’t know of any material of Urobo extraction that can run for governorship. You are not a thief, you don’t have character problem, you have not taken a loan, you don’t have anything for anyone to hold you to ransom for the state not to prosper and we want you as governor. I have a paper signed by both of them drafting me to become governor in 1999. So that was the first stint and this whole adage that it is the apathy of good people that keep bad people in government, I believe in it. I strongly believe that if with my little exposure and experience I have been able to do this bit, with the instrumentality of government, I believe I will turn Delta to Europe. So it will be very evil of me therefore, to know what I am capable of doing and what I can use the resources and environment that Delta has, to bring food, life, shelter, successes, health, progress and all that to Delta and I say I am contented because I am wealthy or my children can go to school.
What has been your lowest moment?
One of my lowest moments was when my father died and when I hear things that are negative; for instance, the death of George Floyd. When I saw the way he was killed, how that policeman knelt on his neck till blood started coming out of his head, that set me thinking for a while and I asked what is the purpose of living if a man of that size can be killed just like that, it means it can happen to other people. As a scientist, I believe there is nothing I cannot do but if you recall the ADC air crash or other plane crashes, local or international and that everyone on board died, things like that are very devastating, they send me to a very bad state of mind. The greatest of it, however, was the death of my father because, I never thought my dad would die because of his religiousness.
How do you spend your time?
Building. I am going to build till the day I die. I build, develop, research and make sure I leave humanity better than I met it. For instance, it was I who took light to Ogidigbo, I took road there, I took maternity there, I took church there, I took hall there, I have been sending the children to school and paying their bills. Those are the things that bring me happiness, I go to any environment and change it irrespective and those are the things I will continue to do till the day I die.
What is your favourite meal and sports?
Sadly, age is a very funny thing. Because of our upbringing we never use to have the luxury of eating chicken like the children of nowadays. When we were growing up, eba used to be our favourite food but because of age they said eba is not good at all. Today, we are eating more of unripe plantain.
Unripe plantain reminds me very sadly of when we were growing up. For a typical Urobo father, his preferred food is plantain and yam. So, in those days if we are given plantain to eat, we will abuse our aunties in our minds, tagging them wicked. But today, we now know that plantain is a very healthy meal than yam, it has no carbs. Today, we are reversing those curses we placed on our aunties. Life is indeed a puzzle.
On sporting, the activity I engage in, incidentally, the kind of work I’m involved in, I do a lot of running around whether in Abuja, Lagos, Warri, I have little or no time for myself. But as I am growing older, I do a lot of tread milling in the house, using vibrators and what have you.
